Sublime Forum

Sublime Text is not simple or convenient

#1

This post is regarding years of issues I have had as an software engineer non-expert on IDEs. Using Sublime since version 2 basically…

I had difficulty finding a right autocomplete (basic function of IDE) as well as other related things related to Python. The idea is that after you install Sublime Text, you either follow a tutorial/blog/youtube to setup your environment.

Now that may have been simple 5 years ago but now you got 10 different packages which don’t work in certain aspects, basically you already have to know what you are doing. Let me tell you how it’s done everywhere else, I either install Python and it offers me all of this, linting, autocompletion … and then I customize it if I want or simply I get all of this with installation since it’s still lightweight and doesn’t require much space.

It’s a bit stupid, what does server side language mean, I still don’t know but this LSP thing works and its actually good… here are the steps:

Remove JEDI or whatever other else you have if you still have issues also check to see that your language is set to Python or do CTRL + SHIFT + P > Set Syntax: Python

It’s stupid that there’s no guide for a Python Developer. Like I’ve worked for companies and myself always used Sublime Text and I didn’t know this.

You know how simple this is in other IDEs, you either install Python extension or nothing at all. Please fix.

Include either a guide or a prebuilt set of packages, I don’t care that you are trying to keep it light this is dumb, I don’t like the elitism of Vim type users. Where you have to be an expert to use an editor, I am a software engineer not a Software IDE Configurator, I haven’t taken a course or done a tutorial, nor am I willing to, please consider this message when doing your business updates and talking to the managers.

Anyway hit me up on my email that you have if you want me to give you feedback I love Sublime and my Sublime people…

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#2

We can just do a base template package for a Python user that would include full-development capabilities. We can use everything already built.

This can also be the second screen after installing sublime, you choose to add basic support for Python, Javascript, Go, Rust or whatever.

That means you can start using your IDE.

But no, you have to be an expert and either use it without these packages or research online hoping that you are going to come across something useful since there’s no official tutorials if I go and type smt like “Sublime Text Python setup”.

I get a blog-post style realpython.com, where it tells me to install anaconda and most people don’t know what anaconda is… you don’t even want to know it is not and should be not the basis for most Python projects. It’s slow laggy and not that good, simply put it is not even meant to do these autocompletions… Look at what it actually does…

Anaconda is a distribution of the Python and R programming languages for scientific computing, that aims to simplify package management and deployment.

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#3

Of course Sublime Works… even Notepad or Notepad++ works.

That’s not the issue it does some things but a lot of things that are necessary it doesn’t do. This is like free advice for your company and I advise you to take it serious, you need to prefer real world over models, this is software engineering 1o1.

Also do make assumptions but verify them, you are building this lightweight thing that does what it is supposed to do, real quick, insane rendering and layout processing but beyond that this is meant as a solution for software developers, I don’t want to take a course on how to use this thing.

Process should be,

  1. I hear about Sublime Text insane performance and potential features/customizations
  2. I am an Python Developer and I want to install everything I need after the installation by click.
  3. I have a list [ ] Go - [ ] Rust - [x] Python
  4. I choose Python and I can start my development without steps 5,6,7,8,9 i.e. (find more about packages, look at a web blog for packages, package not supported in subl-t4, find anaconda, anaconda not working properly)
  5. I go test it and then buy it
  6. I evaluate the product and it makes sense to buy it.

What your company needs to do

Evaluate everything in the process from finding out about the product to actually running everything. I understand that you know how everything works and everything is available but you are not a normal user, which is like everyone else… I have worked with Sublime Text for years and as you can see I still have those issues I don’t have 2 hours daily to look for solutions.

If you refuse to understand this or escalate or talk to your superiors I won’t be contributing anymore to this discussion and talking to you and your company is fruitless. You are not appreciating user feedback and value through this comments. I have just used my experience with your specific product for years and my own knowledge that I have acquired for years to give you an overview of what I think.

I would even understand if Sublime Text thinks that these are bad ideas after evaluating my text but brushing it off is some next level not caring about the product.

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#4

Please don’t spam the forum with the same post in multiple topics, especially if you’re replying to someone specific.

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#5

ST isn’t an IDE. What do you expect?

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#6

I fully agree, with the tilte of this topic. ST is a tool for engineers but not for the ordinary DAU.

The main issue might be the amount of out-dated blog posts and descriptions out in the wild, which advice out-dated often no longer maintained packages. That can really be disappointing and time wasting for new and/or unexperienced users.

A great source of up-to-date tutorials and information is https://www.youtube.com/c/OdatNurd.

With regards to the specific topic I still wonder, what’s so complicated about running Package Control: Install Package twice, to install 2 packages, which enable nearly all code intelligence features, also supported by other more IDE like code editors - especially as “LSP” aka “Language Server Protocol” is a topic, which a software engineer, who deals with modern technologies and tools must have come across for sure. A google search about “Sublime Text LSP” would directly direct to https://lsp.sublimetext.io

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#7

The greatest problem is OP (new comers) doesn’t know the existence of LSP. At the same time, no one is responsible for making every one know the existence of LSP so that people can choose whether they want to use it or not.

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#8

ST is a tool for engineers but not for the ordinary DAU.

ST is a general text editing tool. You can use it for programming, simple text editing or just about anything that has to do with files where you can view & edit text.

a. Someone may use it for programming and be happy.
b. Someone may use it for just prose writing, markdown editing and be happy.
c. Some may use it just for opening & quickly editing some part of a multi GB files (without requiring any packages) and be happy.

In that sense, I don’t see the line between “engineers” & this “ordinary DAU” (I am assuming DAU means day to day users or something). You don’t have to be an “engineer” to use a tool. It just depends on what you want to do with the tool. Simply using it to edit files is not rocket science IMO.

Cycling back to the original question, it seems to me the major part of the frustration comes from the fact that things are not “1 click” away. Or because some blog post is old. Or because things don’t work as the blog post explains it to.

The thing seems ironic to me if you say you are a Software developer and then you complain that you don’t want to be “Software IDE Configurator” or whatever. Even when you make a software project in any programming language, I’d like to know when things are exactly “1 click” away. Or does the blog post/SO (Stack Overflow) answer I am reading always work ? Say, I want to create a simple Node Express back end server

  1. I’d have to install Node.js in my system
  2. I’d have to install Express and any other supporting node packages.
  3. I’d have to write npm scripts to ease a few things during development.
  4. I have to code the actual damn thing.

Is that “1 click” away ? No. But if I have the patience to do all that (Including hunting for bugs, fixing them, fixing code review comments, technical/customer support) as a Software Engineer, why can’t I do the same with ST ?

  1. Why can’t I research and find out if the blog post I am reading is 8 years old and it may not work as I expect ?
  2. Go to the GitHub repo of the package/plugin and find out if the project maintainer is still keeping it active ?
  3. Ask on the forum/discord as to what other users generally use when it comes to working with a programming language ?
  4. Try out a few things on my end to see if it fits my needs ?
  5. If nothing works out, can I ask additional questions to sort out my problems ?

ST IMO has a very active forum community/discord where things gets answered pretty quickly and many times I have seen people ask what packages they generally use for IDE like completions and answers have always been like “LSP + LSP-pyright” or “LSP + LSP-pylsp”. Was that too difficult ? No

This is not a problem specific to ST. It’s in general for any tool you want to use. No matter how many “out-of-the-box” solutions they offer. If I choose to go with NeoVim tomorrrow, I’d have to do the same thing. It will definitely not start working magically for me.

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#9

Sublime Text has built-in syntax highlighting for all of these and more, making them easier to read and write - even if the language / file type isn’t your favorite. Being able to quickly read and, more importantly, make sense of different file types will make you faster and more productive...

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#10

Sure, if you just need another Notepad or Notepad++ to type some plain text, just using the editor without any customization is simple. Or if you a hardcore coder knowing all keywords/classes/… so you don’t need any coding support such as context sensitive auto completions, you may be happy as well.

My statement however targets those who try to customize the editor to make it fit their needs. Many packages don’t work flawlessly or may be outdated. Even worth if no package can do the job you want. Every second answer about missing functions then is: “You can write your own plugin.” I can understand those who are fed up with that, as they want their primary job get done instead of fiddeling around with the editor only.

I’ve used Notepad++ for years. My primary reasons for ST are its powerful syntax engine and its python based more or less simple to use plugin ecosystem, which lets me write some scripts to ease my everyday work. As I use it for CNC/PLC controls development, which is quite special, I haven’t cared about nothing being “1 click away” so I spent the time (many months) to learn ST in dept.

But we can’t decline many things need a very deep understanding and hard to gain knowledge about ST’s internals to get things done, which not everyone wants to or can’t spend the time for.

I am absolutely with you about the rest of your comment. As a software engineer developing fairly complex software, learning the basics about the tools I use (for couple of years), should be not a huge problem.

But I can understand the frustration of those who spent hours or even days to solve things, which work nearly by 1 click in other tools - often just because the lack of high quality packages/plugins - not because it wouldn’t be solveable at all. But no one can effort to write its own LSP package or something complex along those lines.

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#11

That’s unfortunately just the nature of open source. Packages rise & fall & the cycle repeats. ST can’t possibly compete with VS Code in this terms where they have MS employees pour hundreds of hours into developing complete extensions for Python, Java, C# etc.

Seems like a great opportunity then to get into open source then if someone dosent find something suited to their needs (as long as their boss doesn’t seem to be after their soul at work) :slight_smile:

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#12

I am absolutely aware of that fact!

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